Where is this lightning striking twice? And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. It was expensive. . Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. Sig Sauer P320 9mm Gun: The US Army Loves It But There Is a Problem Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. Dude, your story is THREE years old. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. No, it doesnt. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. Funny how that works. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. PDs are dropping them from contracts. Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Was it his fault? Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. Misfires and Lawsuits Plague Sig Sauer P320 Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . Hey, Im sitting here staring at my P320, waiting for it to go bang! Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. Still waiting. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! Did a Sig Sauer P320 Fire On Its Own? A Police Officer - 19FortyFive 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. The Hide Armory. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. He was told to shoot two rounds. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. Search Texas Statutes. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. Pistol misfire that injured soldier was an unpredictable accident - CBC If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. 2. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. 00:03. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. Marine vet ICE agent sues Sig Sauer for $10M claiming pistol shot him In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. Special Forces pulls new pistols from service after soldier - CBC This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! SEPTA officer's handgun spontaneously fired in Philly's Suburban Station And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. Sigs are crap! It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. The Collette suit, for example, lists 39 such discharges, all but five of which involved law enforcement officers. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. Too Many Accidents The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. Who knows. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. The sear cams it back a teeny bit. Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. Sound familiar? This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. Sig Sauer P320 [Review+Video]: Worth It? - Pew Pew Tactical Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). Theres a couple of possibilities. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. First off, no joke on me. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. One hell of a conspiracy. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. My gun just went off! What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! Ron, Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. There was no holster involved. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. He was told to shoot two rounds. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. They habitually use their customers as the product testers by selling what are essentially prototypes while quietly implementing rolling revisions. I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. Plastic crap! An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. SIG SAUER Statement on CANSOFCOM Incident - Soldier Systems Daily Third, Glock has had problems, too. D. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). But Shatner? Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. They are being replaced with Glocks. The new guy sucks. . And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade.
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